Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep...

> Why does anyone need to explain details that were not included in the
> script?
>
> Isn't the idea of a bug/trace being placed on someone enough?

It was, until we realized that they were entirely unnecessary, which is why
we asked what its purpose really was.


> Can't you just accept what you are told by the script? Are you not a bot
> to be programmed by the machines of corporate?

We can, but if we did, we would accept that Neo needed a bug in order to be
tracked despite that Agents can apparently monitor *anyone* in the system
without such bugs. So, again, what's the point of the bug?


> Of course as soon as a person is flushed out of the coppertop system,
> physically hardwired disconnected from the matrix no bug or trace will
> work? But then there is Smith/Bane...
>
> Perhaps someone should start a thread for Matrix Contridictions between
> the first movie and the 2 part second movie.

They have tried. And almost every contradiction has been explained. It is
almost always the result of not fully understanding part of the movie. This
situation, however, is different, because we don't know why the bug is
there...


> Like "man will never be free so long as the Matrix exist" from teh first
> to the ultimate persistant matrix existance in the end.

There is no contradiction here. Man is not free at the end of Revolutions.


> In other words, there is way more data of corrupt inconsistant nature in
> the trilogy that you are not supposed to question, but rather just accept.

There is no law that says we are or are not "supposed to question" the
inconsistencies -- rather, that is our choice. And simply accepting
inconsistencies once the issue is raised is unacceptable. In the interest of
the truth, we choose to seek logical conclusions such that these questions
in the future may be answered correctly such that bad information does not
yield incorrect assumptions.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing
anointment utensil, 3seas <3seasA RemoveThis @Tthreeseas.DOT.not> poots forth...

>Perhaps someone should start a thread for Matrix Contridictions between the
>first movie and the 2 part second movie.
>
>Like "man will never be free so long as the Matrix exist" from teh first to
>the ultimate persistant matrix existance in the end.

I don't see how this is a contradiction, because a) no-one suggests that
Man is free at the end of Revolutions and b) even if they did, the above
is Morpheus' opinion. And in the end it was Neo's opinion that counted.

:)

--
Gavin Smith
--
Elephants can't jump
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

"Benedikt Packmohr" <AGNFUIECWDVN.TakeThisOut@spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:brhsnm$s2m$1@snake.ukrnet.net...
> Hey there!
> I kind of tried to figure the trilogy out, last night, when I noticed that
I
> hadn't really understood all of it... But still there are so many
questions
> left... For example, why did the agents use the bug on Neo? As a part of
the
> system, shouldn't they be able to know where people hacked into the Matrix
> or at least, people connected to the Matrix like Mr. Anderson at that
time,
> are? Why couldn't they take over Neo's body in order to eliminate
Morpheus?
> Because he was the One?
> Regards
> Benny
>
>

I thought the bug was so he could be tracked in the real world and lead the
agents to Morpheous. Even though the bug was inplanted in Neo while he was
in "the matrix", it probably worked in the same way the red pill wotked to
disrupt input/output carrier signals.

Smith did not realise he could take over bodies until he was beaten by Neo
in the 1st Matrix movie (that's what he said in Revolutions)..
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

> I thought the bug was so he could be tracked in the real world and lead
> the agents to Morpheous. Even though the bug was inplanted in Neo while
> he was in "the matrix", it probably worked in the same way the red pill
> wotked to disrupt input/output carrier signals.
>
> Smith did not realise he could take over bodies until he was beaten by Neo
> in the 1st Matrix movie (that's what he said in Revolutions)..

You know, that might actually work. The bug in the system would identify him
in the real world via every human's connection to the source (well, those
with plugs are connected anyway). Or maybe it would allow him to be found if
he hacked in later after being freed... Or maybe it would kill him upon
taking the red pill. Who knows?

I like this train of thought, though...
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

"JPM III" <jpmccord.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:brjb3t$3tqd2$1@ID-53393.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > I thought the bug was so he could be tracked in the real world and lead
> > the agents to Morpheous. Even though the bug was inplanted in Neo while
> > he was in "the matrix", it probably worked in the same way the red pill
> > wotked to disrupt input/output carrier signals.
> >
> > Smith did not realise he could take over bodies until he was beaten by
Neo
> > in the 1st Matrix movie (that's what he said in Revolutions)..
>
> You know, that might actually work. The bug in the system would identify
him
> in the real world via every human's connection to the source (well, those
> with plugs are connected anyway). Or maybe it would allow him to be found
if
> he hacked in later after being freed... Or maybe it would kill him upon
> taking the red pill. Who knows?
>
> I like this train of thought, though...
>
>
>

I took the bug to be the Matrix represention of a computer bug or virus that
they were putting in him which would give them access to his location when
his mind (now infected with the virus) is taken to Zion. The apparatus
that they used to remove the bug was basically the Matrix representation of
Norton Anti-Virus.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

> We can, but if we did, we would accept that Neo needed a bug in order
to be
> tracked despite that Agents can apparently monitor *anyone* in the
system
> without such bugs. So, again, what's the point of the bug?

Actually, they've proven that they can't exactly monitor anyone in the
system. They can only see you through the eyes of the other pod-people
in the Matix. Therefore, if ANYbody sees you, the system can send an
Agent to take over that person and whup your ass, but if there are no
witnesses to spot your location, they have no idea where you are. Take
the scene in M1 where they're hiding inside the wall as an example.
Sure they knew the people were around somewhere, but if they could
instantly track people wherever they were, they'd just go straight for
the wall, rather than having to wait around for somebody to make a sound
and reveal their hiding place.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

> > We can, but if we did, we would accept that Neo needed a bug in order
> > to be tracked despite that Agents can apparently monitor *anyone* in
> > the system without such bugs. So, again, what's the point of the bug?
>
> Actually, they've proven that they can't exactly monitor anyone in the
> system. They can only see you through the eyes of the other pod-people
> in the Matix. Therefore, if ANYbody sees you, the system can send an
> Agent to take over that person and whup your ass, but if there are no
> witnesses to spot your location, they have no idea where you are. Take
> the scene in M1 where they're hiding inside the wall as an example.
> Sure they knew the people were around somewhere, but if they could
> instantly track people wherever they were, they'd just go straight for
> the wall, rather than having to wait around for somebody to make a sound
> and reveal their hiding place.

*sigh*

Anyone *hardwired* to the system. Better?
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

None of the explanations answer the question - When Neo was still in the
Matrix- why didn't the agents simply take over his body - for example when
the girls picked him up and removed the bug- that would have been a perfect
opportunity for the agents to take over Neo, since he was still plugged
in...

I think this is simply an error in the script, and that logic was simply
ignored. I suppose one could argue that since Neo was "The One" and was in
fact an anomolly that was needed to keep the Matrix running - The agents
weren't allowed to mess with him - but that seems a little hard to believe
since the whole show centered on the agents trying to kill him.


"Benedikt Packmohr" <AGNFUIECWDVN DeleteThis @spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:brhsnm$s2m$1@snake.ukrnet.net...
> Hey there!
> I kind of tried to figure the trilogy out, last night, when I noticed that
I
> hadn't really understood all of it... But still there are so many
questions
> left... For example, why did the agents use the bug on Neo? As a part of
the
> system, shouldn't they be able to know where people hacked into the Matrix
> or at least, people connected to the Matrix like Mr. Anderson at that
time,
> are? Why couldn't they take over Neo's body in order to eliminate
Morpheus?
> Because he was the One?
> Regards
> Benny
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

The agents can only see people in the Matrix that are in direct visual sight
of someone in the Matrix.

I assume the bug would tell them where NEO was (so they could find ZION when
he was brought there), but it was not a listening device, so they did not
know that he had been approached by them at the moment.

Also, if the bug truly is to find ZION, then, even if they did know that he
was approached again by them, they would let them take him so they could
find ZION.

Also, Morphius states that if the agents knew what he knows (that NEO is the
one), then NEO would be dead already. This implies that they just think
that NEO is another normal person that they are trying to free and do not
know that they think he is the one, so there is no need for them to kill NEO
now since they think they can use the bug to track him to ZION so they can
find out where ZION mainframe is.


"Joe" <res04854.TakeThisOut@gte.net> wrote in message
news:q_2Eb.25439$xO.22823@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> None of the explanations answer the question - When Neo was still in the
> Matrix- why didn't the agents simply take over his body - for example when
> the girls picked him up and removed the bug- that would have been a
perfect
> opportunity for the agents to take over Neo, since he was still plugged
> in...
>
> I think this is simply an error in the script, and that logic was simply
> ignored. I suppose one could argue that since Neo was "The One" and was
in
> fact an anomolly that was needed to keep the Matrix running - The agents
> weren't allowed to mess with him - but that seems a little hard to believe
> since the whole show centered on the agents trying to kill him.
>
>
> "Benedikt Packmohr" <AGNFUIECWDVN.TakeThisOut@spammotel.com> wrote in message
> news:brhsnm$s2m$1@snake.ukrnet.net...
> > Hey there!
> > I kind of tried to figure the trilogy out, last night, when I noticed
that
> I
> > hadn't really understood all of it... But still there are so many
> questions
> > left... For example, why did the agents use the bug on Neo? As a part of
> the
> > system, shouldn't they be able to know where people hacked into the
Matrix
> > or at least, people connected to the Matrix like Mr. Anderson at that
> time,
> > are? Why couldn't they take over Neo's body in order to eliminate
> Morpheus?
> > Because he was the One?
> > Regards
> > Benny
> >
> >
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

> None of the explanations answer the question - When Neo was still in
the
> Matrix- why didn't the agents simply take over his body - for example
when
> the girls picked him up and removed the bug- that would have been a
perfect
> opportunity for the agents to take over Neo, since he was still
plugged
> in...

And how would they have gotten to him? Agents need a hard-wired person
to take over in order to get at him, and all the people in the car with
him were Zionites. In fact, they probably chose the underside of that
bridge as a meeting place on purpose, because they knew nobody was
likely to see him there. The only thing that bothers me about this
scene is that there actually is a "bug" in Neo's bellybutton, and the
Zionites have a device to remove it. This makes no sense to me, since
Neo's body isn't actually there, so how would there be a physical device
like this bug in there? And who invented this strange contraption to
get it out of there? I'd think that any bug removal would be done
through code and not such a physical device like that. I guess at this
point in the movie, you're not supposed to know that the whole physical
world is a lie, though, so you don't realize how little sense it makes
until you watch the movie again later...
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing
anointment utensil, Richard Masters <acroplex RemoveThis @cfl.rr.com> poots forth...

>The agents can only see people in the Matrix that are in direct visual sight
>of someone in the Matrix.
>
>I assume the bug would tell them where NEO was (so they could find ZION when
>he was brought there), but it was not a listening device, so they did not
>know that he had been approached by them at the moment.
>
>Also, if the bug truly is to find ZION, then, even if they did know that he
>was approached again by them, they would let them take him so they could
>find ZION.

How would the bug help them find Zion? For Neo to go to Zion, he needs
to be unplugged. Once he's unplugged, the bug would be sitting in the
stomach of a dead Thomas Anderson. It wouldn't transport itself into the
real world.

>Also, Morphius states that if the agents knew what he knows (that NEO is the
>one), then NEO would be dead already. This implies that they just think
>that NEO is another normal person that they are trying to free and do not
>know that they think he is the one, so there is no need for them to kill NEO
>now since they think they can use the bug to track him to ZION so they can
>find out where ZION mainframe is.

Alternatively, they knew full well who/what he was, or at least their
boss behind the screens did, which is why they most certainly would not
kill him...

>"Joe" <res04854 RemoveThis @gte.net> wrote in message
>news:q_2Eb.25439$xO.22823@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>> None of the explanations answer the question - When Neo was still in the
>> Matrix- why didn't the agents simply take over his body - for example when
>> the girls picked him up and removed the bug- that would have been a
>perfect
>> opportunity for the agents to take over Neo, since he was still plugged
>> in...
>>
>> I think this is simply an error in the script, and that logic was simply
>> ignored. I suppose one could argue that since Neo was "The One" and was
>in
>> fact an anomolly that was needed to keep the Matrix running - The agents
>> weren't allowed to mess with him - but that seems a little hard to believe
>> since the whole show centered on the agents trying to kill him.
>>
>>
>> "Benedikt Packmohr" <AGNFUIECWDVN RemoveThis @spammotel.com> wrote in message
>> news:brhsnm$s2m$1@snake.ukrnet.net...
>> > Hey there!
>> > I kind of tried to figure the trilogy out, last night, when I noticed
>that
>> I
>> > hadn't really understood all of it... But still there are so many
>> questions
>> > left... For example, why did the agents use the bug on Neo? As a part of
>> the
>> > system, shouldn't they be able to know where people hacked into the
>Matrix
>> > or at least, people connected to the Matrix like Mr. Anderson at that
>> time,
>> > are? Why couldn't they take over Neo's body in order to eliminate
>> Morpheus?
>> > Because he was the One?
>> > Regards
>> > Benny

--
Gavin Smith
--
Elephants can't jump
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

Neo Was Hard Wired! You guys are missing the point... Neo was plugged in-
why not use his eyes to see the zionites, since he was still plugged in -
and kill the zionites, and even earlier in the film- when the agents are
chasing Neo through the office and he is talking to Morpheous on the cell
phone.... Why bother chasing him, He is still plugged in- just invade his
body. It is a plot hole!
"Darrel Hoffman" <I.dont.RemoveThis@think.so.net> wrote in message
news:QekEb.2$W63.0@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > None of the explanations answer the question - When Neo was still in
> the
> > Matrix- why didn't the agents simply take over his body - for example
> when
> > the girls picked him up and removed the bug- that would have been a
> perfect
> > opportunity for the agents to take over Neo, since he was still
> plugged
> > in...
>
> And how would they have gotten to him? Agents need a hard-wired person
> to take over in order to get at him, and all the people in the car with
> him were Zionites. In fact, they probably chose the underside of that
> bridge as a meeting place on purpose, because they knew nobody was
> likely to see him there. The only thing that bothers me about this
> scene is that there actually is a "bug" in Neo's bellybutton, and the
> Zionites have a device to remove it. This makes no sense to me, since
> Neo's body isn't actually there, so how would there be a physical device
> like this bug in there? And who invented this strange contraption to
> get it out of there? I'd think that any bug removal would be done
> through code and not such a physical device like that. I guess at this
> point in the movie, you're not supposed to know that the whole physical
> world is a lie, though, so you don't realize how little sense it makes
> until you watch the movie again later...
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep... 

> The agents can only see people in the Matrix that are in direct visual
sight
> of someone in the Matrix.

Neo was in the Matrix - and the Zionites were within direct visual sight of
Neo- Who was plugged in at that time! Invade Neo's body and kill the
Zionites!


>
> Also, if the bug truly is to find ZION, then, even if they did know that
he
> was approached again by them, they would let them take him so they could
> find ZION.

Later in the trilogy, we find out that the machines already know where Zion
is, because they allowed the humans to rebuild it...
This is another Plot Hole
 >> Stay informed about: Questions that came to my mind when I couldn't sleep...