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Aliens: things they didn't ought to have done

 
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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 91) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Aliens: things they didn't ought to have done [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>cult-movies>alien (more info?)

>>This is an interesting conversation, Keith
>>(and it distracts me from the fact I'm still in the office @ 9pm on a
>>Friday, and I should be working... more about that below...).
>
> What??? You should be drinking by now!

Well, I did have a couple of beers, but that hardly counts as "drinking" in
the way I consider the term. I had a mate finishing her previous
engagement @ 11:30pm, and I was going to catch up with her for a session,
but it occurred to me I had to work today, and can't have a hangover, so
just went home instead :-S


Now, I said I was going to expand on why I was working so late on Friday
(and indeed back in at sparrow's fart today).

The company (err: not "The Company"!) has seen fit to send me over to the
UK next week - for 3-6 months - provided I get my current block of work
finished ready for beta testing on Monday, finished on Wednesday. So
that's quite cool.


> But I wasn't comparing our method to theirs. I was comparing their
> two methods to *each other* when I called the original inefficient.
> Sorry if I didn't make that clear the first time around.

No, I got that. I was just trying to demonstrate it's not much of an
inefficiency.


> Maybe I'm missing the math here. Can you use the population of
> Hadley's Hope as your example?

Nono, I am. Well I'm not, I just didn't bother to think you didn't
actually have my numbers in front of you to look at.

Obviously in my examples, I'm using a timeline as the critical basis of
comparison. In one example, the resources run out on day x; in the other,
it's x+1. But - yes - in that time, there would be almost one more whole
cycle of propagation of the "only uses one resource" variety of alien, so
there would indeed be twice as many aliens by the time the last day
finished.

If resources are limited, the one-at-a-time version get one more cycle, and
there ends up with being almost twice the popluation.

So taking 157 as the benchmark, not six billion, I get this:

System 1 (each alien takes one or two humans per day, resulting in one more
alien each):
@2:
Resources run out on day 7. Between 32 and 64 aliens.

@1
Resources run out on day 8. Between 64 and 128 aliens.

I've lost the figures for the version with the attrition rate, but it'd be
similar.

But with limited resources, all we end up with is aliens without any means
of propagating. Just more of them. At that point it doesn't matter if
there's one or a million of them.


If the resources aren't limited, then it's never an issue, and there's
always the same number of aliens.

I guess more intelligent figures would have the resources multiplying @
some rate too; but realistically, the resources are never going to multiply
fast enough to keep up with the aliens, and the differences would be
trivial. Even if the resources *did* breed like rabbits.

Anyway, I gotta get this work done...

--

Adam

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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 92) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:14 pm
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> Now.... *sheep* on the other hand....

Get yer eyes off my sheep!

--

Adam

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Keith Hazelwood

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Since: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 44



(Msg. 93) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:14 pm
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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:14:51 +1300, Adam Cameron
<adam_junk.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> What??? You should be drinking by now!
>
>Well, I did have a couple of beers, but that hardly counts as "drinking" in
>the way I consider the term. I had a mate finishing her previous
>engagement @ 11:30pm, and I was going to catch up with her for a session,
>but it occurred to me I had to work today, and can't have a hangover, so
>just went home instead :-S

What a waste of a Friday night. :-(

>The company (err: not "The Company"!) has seen fit to send me over to the
>UK next week - for 3-6 months - provided I get my current block of work
>finished ready for beta testing on Monday, finished on Wednesday. So
>that's quite cool.

Does this mean you'll be sampling some of the world's finest warm
beer? Or do they serve it cold for civilized foreigners, too? When
are you going to come to the US and enjoy the King of Beers again?

>> Maybe I'm missing the math here. Can you use the population of
>> Hadley's Hope as your example?
>
>Nono, I am. Well I'm not, I just didn't bother to think you didn't
>actually have my numbers in front of you to look at.

I know the colony has a population of 158, if that helps.

>If resources are limited, the one-at-a-time version get one more cycle, and
>there ends up with being almost twice the popluation.

That's basically what I was getting at. For Cameron's purposes, the
queen made more sense in order to inflate the numbers closer to a 1:1
ratio, thus giving the marines more to shoot at (per his marching
orders by Giler and Hill).

>If the resources aren't limited, then it's never an issue, and there's
>always the same number of aliens.
>
>I guess more intelligent figures would have the resources multiplying @
>some rate too; but realistically, the resources are never going to multiply
>fast enough to keep up with the aliens, and the differences would be
>trivial. Even if the resources *did* breed like rabbits.

Also take into account pets, livestock and wildlife. Cattle are
already nicely penned in, too. If the aliens got loose on Earth
they'd have *far* more than six billion potential hosts to work with.

Keith
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Keith Hazelwood

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Since: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 44



(Msg. 94) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:14 pm
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On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:49:12 -0500, "Glen A. RITCHIE"
<Get_Away_From_Her_You_BITCH RemoveThis @Aliens.com> wrote:

>if I recall, American beer is somewhat less (3 %), leading many Canadians to
>dismiss it as merely "horse piss".

Budweiser is 5% ABV.

>I agree, this has been an interesting conversation (although somewhat
>difficult for me to grasp at times, as I am lacking in a scientific
>background), and I don't know why this hasn't been previously explored over
>the past three years I've on this newsgroup.

It probably has. It amazes me the number of times a given topic can
be raised, discussed, and forgotten around here. Sometimes I forget
what I've said in previous discussions so I use Google to refresh my
memory. I mean, why reinvent my own arguments? ;-)

Keith
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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 95) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:14 pm
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"Adam Cameron" <adam_junk.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:finrw3vl1gaa.9jwt18xxrs4k$.dlg@40tude.net...
> > Now.... *sheep* on the other hand....
>
> Get yer eyes off my sheep!


It's not the eyes you should be worried about !!!


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 96) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:14 pm
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"Adam Cameron" <adam_junk RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hhyfp30albgz.1a62sqeqktg9m.dlg@40tude.net...

> The company (err: not "The Company"!) has seen fit to send me over to the
> UK next week - for 3-6 months -

Where are ya gonna be ?


--
Covenant
A Man Who Wants To Know Where To Avoid !!!! ;' )))))
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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 97) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:14 pm
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"Keith Hazelwood" <unknown RemoveThis @unknown.net> wrote in message
news:ccbhu0hgdsk42gd6thveunijf2v9s4qahn@4ax.com...
> Sometimes I forget
> what I've said in previous discussions so I use Google to refresh my
> memory. I mean, why reinvent my own arguments? ;-)


To see if you still believe in them ??

;' )))))


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 98) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:06 pm
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> Just out of curiosity, what percentage of alcohol is in New Zealand beer?

The mainstream ones are 4-5%, generally.

>> if I recall, American beer is somewhat less (3 %), leading many Canadians to
>> dismiss it as merely "horse piss".

(I'll just reply to Keith here too)
>Budweiser is 5% ABV.

I thought the domestic Bud was 3% and the expert stuff was a "real" beer?
I have no reason to think this other than various USAns telling me. Bud is
rancid even @ 5% (which is what we get it at here), and I could not imagine
what a 3% "beer" would taste like.

Anyway, the problem with USAn bee ain't the alcohol percentage, it's the
flavour. Or the absolute lack of any. I guess it means you can drink a lot
more of it without noticing.

A while back I was @ LAX with nothing better to do (six hour gap between
flights), and I sat there drinking some sort of Miller stuff whilst I
waited. I have to say after eight or so pints (very cold pints, which was
good), I was actually beginning to be a bit tipsy.

Wasn't a bad afternoon (or was it morning?), all things considered.


>> The company (err: not "The
>> Company"!) has seen fit to send me
>> over to the UK next week - for 3-6
>> months
>
> Good on ya, Adam!

Shit yes. I think we've got a client or two in Scotland, too, so I might
have to go worry some of Cov's sheep. Not too sure what the plan is in
that regard yet (going to Scotland, not sheep worrying).


> Just don't quit your job this time because you can't follow the entire
> cricket season!

Bloody *hell* you have a good memory.

That was back in 1999!

Apropos to nothing other than that date, I'm still in touch with all my
mates form when I was over there 96-99, and I have a hell of a booze-up
coming up next Friday/Sat/Sun. Provided I make my deadline and Thursday
flight, I mean.

Progress was good today, so I'm confident...


> (Still looking for a place in Ottawa where cricket is actually played ... )

Canada are quite good @ cricket, so I'm surprised it's that difficult. Or
is it mostly played in BC?


> I agree, this has been an interesting conversation (although somewhat
> difficult for me to grasp at times, as I am lacking in a scientific
> background),

Me too. I just made some stuff up (ie: the theories and formulas). And
then spend rather too long in Excel - not my strength - trying to work out
how to process them.

--

Adam
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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 99) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:13 pm
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>>Well, I did have a couple of beers, but that hardly counts as "drinking" in
>>the way I consider the term. I had a mate finishing her previous
>>engagement @ 11:30pm, and I was going to catch up with her for a session,
>>but it occurred to me I had to work today, and can't have a hangover, so
>>just went home instead :-S
>
> What a waste of a Friday night. :-(

I *know*.

But it's a means to an end. I was able to get up and go to work today @
8:30am, instead of wallowing in bed clutching my head like I normally do on
a Saturday. I'm having another couple of beers now (8pm, still in office),
and previously mentioned mate is en route into town now to catch up for
some more. But I still have to work tomorrow, so it'll be a mostly quiet
evening. Pity: it's very sunny out (even @ 8pm, yes).


> Does this mean you'll be sampling some of the world's finest warm
> beer? Or do they serve it cold for civilized foreigners, too? When

I still think they serve GUinness too warm in London, but I can make do.
But, yeah, I'm looking fwd to getting back into some proper ales. There's
only one pub in Aukcland that makes anything resembling a UK beer.


> are you going to come to the US and enjoy the King of Beers again?

I hope to. We're branching into the US in the next year or so, so who
knows? I've also got my name in the Green Card Lottery this year (well:
next year's one), so I have my fingers crossed there. The only two Kiwis I
personally know to have entered the GCL have won, so I think the odds for
NZers is quite good. I don't want to rark anyone up, but people are
looking @ me like I've suffered a major head injury when I suggest I want
to migrate *to* the States.

>>Nono, I am. Well I'm not, I just didn't bother to think you didn't
>>actually have my numbers in front of you to look at.
>
> I know the colony has a population of 158, if that helps.

Yeah, I posted the adjusted figurs for that population, yes? My ISP was
being flajky today, so not sure if it got through...

> That's basically what I was getting at. For Cameron's purposes, the
> queen made more sense in order to inflate the numbers closer to a 1:1
> ratio, thus giving the marines more to shoot at (per his marching
> orders by Giler and Hill).

Or, you know, they could have made the colony bigger. It could have just
as easily housed 316 people as 158. That particular figure didn't matter.

--

Adam
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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 100) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:15 pm
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> And conveniently die off very rapidly (as the specimen in A1 seems to be
> doing in the shuttle).

I know the above has been suggested before, but is there anything to
suggest it isn't simply hiding? Or just feels more @ home in a confined
space?

--

Adam
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Keith Hazelwood

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Since: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 44



(Msg. 101) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:15 pm
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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 20:15:56 +1300, Adam Cameron
<adam_junk RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>> And conveniently die off very rapidly (as the specimen in A1 seems to be
>> doing in the shuttle).
>
>I know the above has been suggested before, but is there anything to
>suggest it isn't simply hiding? Or just feels more @ home in a confined
>space?

Agreed. Even the script says nothing of the alien dying. Ridley
Scott said nothing of it in the audio commentary on the DVD either.

Keith
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Sandman

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Since: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 729



(Msg. 102) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:00 pm
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In article <8mtgu0hk97rch7rh2d86i25n8r40mm15mq.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
Keith Hazelwood <unknown.RemoveThis@unknown.net> wrote:

> >> Again, I'm determining its efficiency compared to that of *their*
> >> alternate method of reproduction, not ours.
> >
> >Right, but I'm suggesting that 2-into-1 is good enough not to need
> >improving.
>
> Have it your way. Clearly I'm outnumbered by the queen haters.

I'm an illogic-hater, so I'm with you. :)

--
Sandman[.net]
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Sandman

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Since: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 729



(Msg. 103) Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:09 pm
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In article <vrzqj4br3rwj$.yvbnup6xrz3m$.dlg@40tude.net>,
Adam Cameron <adam_junk RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

> Even the most pessimistic of my models still has the aliens @ 387 million.
> After twenty days (that was the 6-victims => three aliens per day one).
>
> Their method of doing it is far better than ours.

But you're working from the idea of conversion, instead of growth.

One facehugger and ten hosts can produce five aliens, while ten humans can grow
into billions of humans, since the offspring has the ability to create new. The
rate increases with humans and isn't limited by the amount of resources you
have to begin with. With Aliens, the resources define the result. That's pretty
inefficient.

This is regardless of whether there is a queen or not of course, it's the
entire "host or not" thing.

--
Sandman[.net]
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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 104) Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:10 am
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> Where are ya gonna be ?

London. Well I'm seriously hoping I can convince them I don't need to
actually attend the company office, which is in Weybridge. There'll be a
desk for me out there, but there's only the (UK) boss out there, and even
then only occasionally. I am hoping to be able to work form home or at the
offices of some other dudes we work with (in Clapham). THis is yet to be
confirmed.

But we have clients all over the show, so hopefully will get to see some
more of the country than just cricket grounds and railway stations, this
time ;-)

--

Adam
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Kryten

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Since: Jan 03, 2005
Posts: 6



(Msg. 105) Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:33 am
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"Glen A. RITCHIE" <Get_Away_From_Her_You_BITCH DeleteThis @Aliens.com> wrote in message
news:qdjGd.41386$b64.1455154@news20.bellglobal.com...
> The "she" here being the old bag?
Yep.

> Shame that people even have to be pushed to the snapping point before
> their
> tormentors realise their place.

Parents eventually become the children in a family.
Hence a telling off is sometimes required.

> "Bene Gesserit"?

The sisterhood who manipulate humanity over generations in the Dune saga.

> It's certainly not as much fun and it won't make a B-grade horror film,
> but
> the legal route can be equally as effective in achieving results.

The carbonite freezing unit certainly avoids the legal hassles of importing
animals into the UK.

The landlord's mum is enough of a horror already.

She doesn't eat your brain, she nags until your body digests your own brain.

Her husband only has enough neurons left to say "yes dear" and smoke a pipe.


> Finally, for the sake of my health and safety,
> I decided to move and pay
> half my income towards my rent

Crikey. Have you got a low income or a high rent bill?



> Of course, moving should always be your last resort (pardon the pun).

Well the landlord has started odd activities so might be best to leave
before they intrude into my space. I'm looking at rooms right now.
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