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Xreman

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Since: Aug 08, 2003
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:41 pm
Post subject: Before Alien 5 is writen.
Archived from groups: alt>cult-movies>alien (more info?)

Here's something the next screenwriter should read, before starting to
write Alien 5.
Lets start with a few lines from “Aliens”.
Ripley is in debriefing, defending her story.

“Excuse me, Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?
Mam, I told you it was a derelict space ship. Right! It was not from
there.”

“Cain,.... the crewmen Cain said he saw thousands of eggs there.”

Does anyone remember herring these lines in the debriefing seen in
“Aliens”.
The writer of the 4th Alien movie, Joss Whedon, has ether forgotten this
or he wasn't paying attention. I know that at the end of the move
(Aliens) the teriforming station exploded and the colonist's settlement
was destroyed.
However the derelict ship was not anywhere near by. It should not have
been destroyed in the blast.
The man in charge at Ripley’s debriefing said that there had been
colonists on LB426 for years and they had never complained about any
hostile alien. One may infer that if a people had been in an area for
‘years’ that they would have seen all there is to see in the area around
their home.
They certainly would have seen that ship, it was massive. This leads me
to believe that the derelict ship was far away and should still be
intact.
I said all that to say this; If the military or the Company, (whatever)
wants some aliens, why don't they go get some.
That would make a more believable premise on which to continue the
story.
At least we could buy that a lot easier that that bogus turkey Mr.
Whedon tried to shove down our throats last installment.

GOOD STORY MAKES GOOD MOVIE, Not special effects and goop!

The man needs to take a biology class or just talk to a biology
teacher.
Quick question; A man eats bad meat and gets a tapeworm. The tapeworm
lays eggs inside the man. The man feels sick so he goes to the hospital
and has some blood work done. On his way home, he dies in an automobile
accident. Some years later, the man is cloned from the blood sample that
was taken just before he died. Will he be half man and half tapeworm? I
don't think so. My eight year old son could answer that one.
I could have bought the cloning bit to bring back Ripley. The show just
wouldn't be the same without her. It could have been said that she was
brought back to learn more about the aliens. After all, she was the
only person to survive three close encounters with them, (they did not
get her, she killed herself).
And speaking of killed; if Mr. Whedon, wants people to feel something
for his characters when they die, he has got to give us a chance to get
to know them first. There was a lot of good talent in this cast but they
didn't get a chance to show it.
Mr. Whedon should consider the people over at Paramount, that work on
the
Star Trek projects. They have people that check to see that the story
lines check out with science fact or at least theory. They know that
their Trekies will write in and complain about faulty premises.
I didn’t think the “Alien 3” was so great but at least it did not
insult my intelligence.
I don’t know if Joss Whedon will ever see this or if he will have
anything to do with the next movie but please man, leave the DNA thing
alone.

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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Before Alien 5 is writen. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Xreman wrote:
> Here's something the next screenwriter should read, before starting to
> write Alien 5.
> Lets start with a few lines from “Aliens”.
> Ripley is in debriefing, defending her story.
>
> “Excuse me, Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?
> Mam, I told you it was a derelict space ship. Right! It was not from
> there.”
>
> “Cain,.... the crewmen Cain said he saw thousands of eggs there.”


Yeah, this has ben mooted before....

Except Ripley never heard Kane say any such thing !

;' )

And it has also been pretty much mathematically proved by someone in here
that the derelict was waaaayyy too far away from the explosion.

--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands

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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: Before Alien 5 is writen. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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>Except Ripley never heard Kane say any such thing !

Well there's no on-screen situation where this happens, but that
doesn't mean it didn't happen.

It's difficult to tell how much time passed from when Kane came to -
and could only recall some "horrible nightmare about smothering" (or
whatever he said... must be about time to watch Alien again!) - and
when the CB made its exit. It *could* be simply the walking distance
from medical to the mess (ie: it happened *straight* away), but even
then, there's enough time for a conversation about it

For one thing, I can't see that Dallas and Ash simply left it at "oh,
OK, so you don't remember". There *must* have been a "you must
remember *something*... what happened after we started to winch you
down that hole" conversation. And we didn't see that either, so it
could reasonably be considered that the "1000s of eggs there" comment
was made then.

We "know" the comment *must* have been made - in the frame of
reference of the Alien storyline, because Ripley has that knowledge in
the second film. Of course from a "real world" perspective, it's just
lazy filmmaking from Cameron, but I'm still a firm believer in "just
because we didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

How about this:

[the crew are walking the short distance between medical and mess]
Dallas: You don't remember *anything*?
Kane: It's just... all a blur. Really. I... it seems so long ago.
Ash [to Dallas]: given the trauma it's entirely reasonable that...
Brett: right.
Dallas [nonplussed look, making it obvious he's not interested in
Ash's psycho-analysis, and slight irritation at Brett's 'right'
habit]: Do you remember Lambert and I winching you down into that
cavern you mentioned?
Kane: Err... cavern... [maybe some vague memory is forming]
Lambert: you said it was full of "leathery egg-like objects".
Kane: ... yeah... all over the place... the cavern - whatever it was -
was *huge*.
Dallas: Huge?
Lambert: From the size of the ship it must only have...
Kane: hundreds of metres long, easily that wide.
[Dallas and Lambert - doing the math in their head - wonder what the
cavern was: it wasn't a part of the ship: too big. The thought is
fleeting, though]
Ripley: and this *thing* came out of one of those eggs... how many
eggs?
Kane [still hesitantly, the memories aren't that clear]: it seemed
full of them, all over the "floor". [shudders] There must have been
*thousands* of those eggs in there.
[the crew enters the mess, Parker says something crass "to lighten the
mood" and the conversation moves away from face-hugging aliens and
onto the only slightly less unappealing prospect of another meal of
recycled food]

Or, of course, because we didn't see it, they may have made the walk
in thoughtful and reverential silence.

Adam
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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Before Alien 5 is writen. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hardpan wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:41:39 -0400, Xreman <xreman.TakeThisOut@attglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Here's something the next screenwriter should read, before starting
>> to write Alien 5.
>> Lets start with a few lines from “Aliens”.
>> Ripley is in debriefing, defending her story.
>>
>> “Excuse me, Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?
>> Mam, I told you it was a derelict space ship. Right! It was not from
>> there.”
>>
>> “Cain,.... the crewmen Cain said he saw thousands of eggs there.”
>
> He could have informed them of that fact when he recovered at the
> breakfast table, no?.


No.. Cos he had no memory of the event...

"Do you remember anything about the planet...?"

>>shakes head<<

"What's the last thing you *do* remember?"

"...Some... horrible dream about.. *smothering*?!"


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
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Hardpan

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Since: Jun 19, 2006
Posts: 10



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Before Alien 5 is writen. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:50 am
Post subject: Re: Before Alien 5 is writen. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hardpan wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 16:58:34 +0100, "Covenant"
> <covenant DeleteThis @joelamb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hardpan wrote:
>>> On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:41:39 -0400, Xreman <xreman DeleteThis @attglobal.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's something the next screenwriter should read, before starting
>>>> to write Alien 5.
>>>> Lets start with a few lines from “Aliens”.
>>>> Ripley is in debriefing, defending her story.
>>>>
>>>> “Excuse me, Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?
>>>> Mam, I told you it was a derelict space ship. Right! It was not
>>>> from there.”
>>>>
>>>> “Cain,.... the crewmen Cain said he saw thousands of eggs there.”
>>>
>>> He could have informed them of that fact when he recovered at the
>>> breakfast table, no?.
>>
>>
>> No.. Cos he had no memory of the event...
>>
>> "Do you remember anything about the planet...?"
>>
>>>> shakes head<<
>>
>> "What's the last thing you *do* remember?"
>>
>> "...Some... horrible dream about.. *smothering*?!"
>
> You are correct.


;' )

You'll come to realise that's *generally* the case !

;' )


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Before Alien 5 is writen. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Robert wrote:
> "Adam Cameron" <adam_junk DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:k978jvg2sonoflt2ana9uo030jrrn5m31r@4ax.com...
>>> Except Ripley never heard Kane say any such thing !
>>
>> Well there's no on-screen situation where this happens, but that
>> doesn't mean it didn't happen.
>>
>> It's difficult to tell how much time passed from when Kane came to -
>> and could only recall some "horrible nightmare about smothering"
>
> Snip good stuff...
>
> Another thing....Ash et. al. would have seen the egg chamber on
> Kane's suit video camera; Ripley might have just mis-spoke.


Noooo.. The cameras went down before they even reached the derelict.


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
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Christian Weber

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Since: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 8



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:43 am
Post subject: Re: Before Alien 5 is writen. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> > And it has also been pretty much
> > mathematically proved by someone in
> > here that the derelict was waaaayyy too
> > far away from the explosion.

But we never agreed on if the explosion would effect the derelict sitting on
that unstable lava filled ground. I.e. the explosion goes off and that
causes the unstable ground to crack more and the derelict has sunk
underneath the lava.

Bug
--
www.audiowar.co.uk
www.k-nitrate.com
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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:28 pm
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Doctor J. Frink wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:58:37 +0100, Covenant
> <covenant RemoveThis @joelamb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>>>
>>> Another thing....Ash et. al. would have seen the egg chamber on
>>> Kane's suit video camera; Ripley might have just mis-spoke.
>>
>> Noooo.. The cameras went down before they even reached the derelict.
>
> Excuse my memory if this is wrong but we see Kane go down into the
> hold with the eggs by himself, gets a sloppy kiss from the FH and
> then it's back at the ship.
>
> Now, how did Kane get back to the ship?

He was on a winch if you recall...

He was obviously just winched back up.


--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Before Alien 5 is writen. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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>But we never agreed on if the explosion would effect the derelict sitting on
>that unstable lava filled ground. I.e. the explosion goes off and that
>causes the unstable ground to crack more and the derelict has sunk
>underneath the lava.

That's a bit of a reach, isn't it? (albeit not really that much more
of a reach than most of the discourse around here, I guess ;-)

Adam
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Doom Archvile

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Since: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 9



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:43 am
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In article <bh8jl9$br9$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Covenant"
<covenant DeleteThis @joelamb.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

>> Now, how did Kane get back to the ship?

>He was on a winch if you recall...
>
>He was obviously just winched back up.

Which turns out to be really important. Without the winch, other crew members
would have had to go get him. They probably would have been attacked by
facehuggers too. (The eggs probably don't have to be touched to be triggered.)


The chestbursting(s) would have occurred in the derelict rather than on the
Nostromo.
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Doom Archvile

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Since: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 9



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:43 am
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In article <k978jvg2sonoflt2ana9uo030jrrn5m31r RemoveThis @4ax.com>, Adam Cameron
<adam_junk RemoveThis @hotmail.com> writes:

>For one thing, I can't see that Dallas and Ash simply left it at "oh,
>OK, so you don't remember". There *must* have been a "you must
>remember *something*... what happened after we started to winch you
>down that hole" conversation. And we didn't see that either, so it
>could reasonably be considered that the "1000s of eggs there" comment
>was made then.
>
>We "know" the comment *must* have been made - in the frame of
>reference of the Alien storyline, because Ripley has that knowledge in
>the second film. Of course from a "real world" perspective, it's just
>lazy filmmaking from Cameron, but I'm still a firm believer in "just
>because we didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

And it doesn't have to be a direct quote. Ripley didn't say, "Kane said -- and
I quote -- 'I saw thousands of eggs in there.' "

I think Kane told Dallas and Lambert that there were lots of leather things in
the room. Later they realized they were eggs. They could 'guesstimate' the
size of an egg based on the size of the facehugger. They could also estimate
the size of the room based on the size of the ship. Dallas and/or Lambert
could have given Ripley the thousands-of-eggs idea off-screen. And it could
have been at any time. The conversation doesn't have to happen before Kane
dies.
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Doom Archvile

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Since: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 9



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:43 am
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In article <k978jvg2sonoflt2ana9uo030jrrn5m31r.DeleteThis@4ax.com>, Adam Cameron
<adam_junk.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> writes:

>How about this:
>
>[the crew are walking the short distance between medical and mess]

>Dallas: You don't remember *anything*?
>Kane: It's just... all a blur. Really. I... it seems so long ago.

>Dallas: Do you remember Lambert and I winching you down into that
>cavern you mentioned?

Don't use "Lambert and I."

It's like writing, "Do you remember we winching you..."

I would write "Do you remember Lambert and me winching..."

( Since "Do you remember *us* winching you down..." sounds right, then "Lambert
and me" works. )

Technically, the possessive should be used -- "Do you remember *our* winching
you...?"

"I" is subjective. "Me" is objective". "Our" and "my" are possessive.

I know none of this is relevant to the point of the message. I've just heard
people use "I" in the wrong situations on television far too often and my head
is about to explode. People have focused on the word "and". They've decided
that "I" should **always** be used with "and".

"Bob and I rowed" is correct. (I'm just as happy with "Bob and me rowed"
though.)

"You gave lessons to Bob and I" is wrong.

It's obvious if you (generic "you", not Adam specifically) substitute "we" in
place of "Bob and I":

"You gave lessons to we."

Whenever I hear an actor or anchorman use "I" after a preposition, I end up
grumbling at the TV. Something like "It should be: '...to Bob and me.' Me me
me damn it!!!"
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Adam Cameron

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Since: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 222



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:13 am
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>>Dallas: Do you remember Lambert and I winching you down into that
>>cavern you mentioned?
>
>Don't use "Lambert and I."

Oops.

You're absolutely right (obviously). I got pinged for exactly the
same thing in a 4th form (read: "Year 10") essay one time, and I guess
I've never managed to learn one of the rules I - myself - suggest to
people in this sort of situation: "when testing grammar, simplify your
nouns".

According to a.c-m.a lore, I should ready myself for some sort of
grammar-nazi tirade from - no less than - myself, round about now.

Let's wait and see...

Adam
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Covenant

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 405



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:39 am
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Doom Archvile wrote:
> In article <bh8jl9$br9$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Covenant"
> <covenant.DeleteThis@joelamb.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>
>>> Now, how did Kane get back to the ship?
>
>> He was on a winch if you recall...
>>
>> He was obviously just winched back up.
>
> Which turns out to be really important. Without the winch, other
> crew members would have had to go get him. They probably would have
> been attacked by facehuggers too. (The eggs probably don't have to
> be touched to be triggered.)


Except that Alien shoowed they *did*...

And Jimmy's Ants showed they *didn;t*...

;' )))

(Unless one takes the notion that *new* eggs can sense hosts.. and *dormant*
eggs need the outside stimulus.. )

--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
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